Estate Agents - to cut fees, or increase them?

[googler]

"So that's two internet EAs you've been able to find. Would you now please perform the same exercise on non-internet EAs and return to the forum withyour answer? "

You asked for ANY internet EAs that have gone to the wall, and there's two to start with.

Perform the same exercise on high-street EAs? For the whole of the country? No, no thanks. Be my guest.

Your analogous industries aren't truly analogous. The music biz isn't a service industry, it's a product industry. They supply CDs or mp3s, the public buys them. An EA is providing a service, and you can see what happens with call-centre backlash when the folks at the end of the phone or website become too detached from the public. The banks and BSs tried their centres in Bangalore and Delhi, and now they're realising it's a promotional point to have contacts nearer to home.

People want to deal with someone in their own town, not at the other end of the country.

[drhouse]

Originally Posted by Homeseller

Dr House - would it be fair to assume that there are many more traditional EAs than Internet EAs?

Of course, but IF there were 100 internet EAs and 99 went out of business that's 99%. Without the figures how can it be compared ?

You said earlier that the preferred business model would be no sale no fee which most traditional EAs use. To me what your argument boils down to is the cost. You don't actually care who sells a property you just want it to be cheaper. You are also assuming that all traditional EAs fees are high. I have sold low cost properties and got less than WOW was charging.

[drhouse]

Originally Posted by Homeseller

You're still missing the point. I am saying that it is ludicrous to post as important news that one internet EA has gone out of business when that internet EA is far outnumbered by the number of non-internet EAs going out of business. This isn't difficult stuff, you know, but you'd think it was rocket science the way you and Googler are labouring it.

I don't think Googler said it was important merely that it was relevant to the discussion, as you were talking about internet only agency.

This whole thread is about cost, Dr House. Read the first post again. Not sure what you mean by caring about who sells it and not even sure it's relevant given that EAs have the market sewn up as a closed shop on advertising.

I think it was perfectly clear - you don't care what type of agency sells a property, you care about the cost of selling that property. As for it being a closed shop I believe there are several portals that take ads from private sellers. Vendors have a choice.

I assume that traditional EA fees are high, yes, and I am sure that you have received less than Wow's fees. I bet you've got more than you deserved on occasion to, eh Dr House?

I think it is rather blinkered to assume all fees are high. Have I ever got more than I deserved ? No I am worth every penny.

I believe there is room for both types of agency and contrary to your belief most traditional agents are progressive.

[googler]

Originally Posted by Homeseller

It wasn't an analogy, it was a comparison.

(snip)

is to split hairs which as I know is what you do.

You're accusing me of splitting hairs ....?!?!?

[drhouse]

Originally Posted by Homeseller

You really believe that vendors have a choice? I don't. The only option is an overpriced one. An agent is at the beck and call of the state of the market. There's no skill involved, well, not like say a lawyer or something. It's all a pretence and I am sure you work hard but you are not worth every penny if your charges are up in the 1.5% plus VAT area. Sorry!

A lot of people sell privately in Scotland, a sign in the window an ad in the paper, etc. There's a local village where the merest whiff at the school gates of a property for sale and its gone. Some of them choose to go with an agent though to get a better price - their choice.

As for skill, well in all walks of life there are some better than others.

And, although it is irrelevant, in my area I don't know of anyone able to get close to 1.5% fees apart from the Savills type agency.

[googler]

Originally Posted by Homeseller

That all, Googler? All that debate and you choose to split hairs about my splitting hairs? Kind of proves my point doesn't it?

Fail.

Doesn't prove your point at all.

Your presence in this forum doesn't guarantee you a response to your satisfaction, nor a response at all.

[mortgage_advisor]

Originally Posted by googler

Online selling is just one part of the service that should be provided.

How does online selling ALONE provide more of a service?

How does online selling ALONE get the owner the best price?

How does online selling communicate, to a prospective buyer, that a certain property may/will be coming to market soon, and thereby generate interest in that property? A real person can say "This one will/might be coming up soon, if that might be of interest to you", but a website can't.

"pay for a service they have actually received" - elaborate, please?

"increased fees will alienate the potential seller" - as I said in another thread, "you get what you pay for, and you don't get what you don't pay for". You're saying that most, if not all, estate agents don't provide a full service, then espouse the benefits of a single sales 'channel' which provides even less of a service.

I look at the high street in my town, and the public aren't walking into web cafes to browse for property, they're looking in the estate agents' windows. People who walk the same walk every day stop and look to see what's new. Believe it or not, there are still people in this world who don't browse the web, and even some who DON'T HAVE A COMPUTER

The agents in my neck of the woods utilise sale boards, high-street windows, press advertising, their own dedicated print publications, and a variety of other tactics to sell AS WELL AS their own websites and portals. You're saying that you, or other 'online estate agents' provide more of a service with a website, and nothing else. This doesn't add up.

There have been others who posted details of internet-only sales sites that they've been running in this and other forums, and when I go look at them, they're not worth the mouse-clicks that it took to get there. Next to no properties, an apparent lack of activity in their own forums, and generally not worth looking at. Are you running one of these? If so, please tell us the web address so I can have a looksee.

I can think of one particular online property portal/estate agent that will arrange viewings, you can call though to a call centre to discuss the property and arrange the viewing, and also charges a much, much lower fee. ie housenetwork

With regard to this comment:

"I look at the high street in my town, and the public aren't walking into web cafes to browse for property, they're looking in the estate agents' windows."

This is a rather silly comment. If you look at the high street then you aren't going to see people at home on their PC's. I think the vast majority of people do the majority of their searching for property on the internet. When selling a property, I would think the single most important question to ask the agent is "Do you put the property on rightmove?"

To say that online property portals offer more of a service may be incorrect, as I'm sure there is some value to be had from having an estate agent and being in a shop window, however it is questionable as to whether or not the fee charged offers value.

[mortgage_advisor]

just realised I only read the first few posts on here, didn't notice the other 100 or so Doh!

[mortgage_advisor]

I think it would be a good idea to list exactly what both options do.

We can then take a look at a few examples, say a property worth 150k, 200k 300k etc, and see how much more you are paying an estate agent for these extra services.

If we take 2% as an average cost, thats 3k at 150k. As opposed to £345 + vat = £397.

So for a property worth £150k, you are paying an extra £2,603 for these extra services. (And obviously that price difference will be much larger as the property value increases)

So my question to any estate agents out there, what exactly are you offering that housenetwork doesn't for the extra £2,603?

This isn't an attack on estate agents, it's a genuine question. I definitely believe there is a role for estate agents, certainly at the higher value level, ie £2m+, or more specialist properties.

It would also be interesting to see some statistics on lenghth of time on market before sale, number of viewings over given period, and sale price achieved for a set of similar properties via both sale methods. Not sure how we'd get that though.

ADMIN! Any ideas where we could get that? Not sure why you should know but I figure you must see all sorts on here.

[drhouse]

Originally Posted by mortgage_advisor

I think it would be a good idea to list exactly what both options do.

We can then take a look at a few examples, say a property worth 150k, 200k 300k etc, and see how much more you are paying an estate agent for these extra services.

If we take 2% as an average cost, thats 3k at 150k. As opposed to £345 + vat = £397.

So for a property worth £150k, you are paying an extra £2,603 for these extra services. (And obviously that price difference will be much larger as the property value increases)

So my question to any estate agents out there, what exactly are you offering that housenetwork doesn't for the extra £2,603?

This isn't an attack on estate agents, it's a genuine question. I definitely believe there is a role for estate agents, certainly at the higher value level, ie £2m+, or more specialist properties.

It would also be interesting to see some statistics on lenghth of time on market before sale, number of viewings over given period, and sale price achieved for a set of similar properties via both sale methods. Not sure how we'd get that though.

ADMIN! Any ideas where we could get that? Not sure why you should know but I figure you must see all sorts on here.

I don't think it would be easy to find these stats, especially the viewing ones. I have no experience of housenetwork as they don't seem to operate in Scotland so don't know how they perform. From the knowledge of an internet only agent operating locally, they provide a board, do details and put it on Right Move and sometimes arrange viewings.

What do I do ?
Provide a valuation with evidence of previous sales, market trends, etc.
Advice on how to make the property more 'sellable'
Organise a home report
Organise finance for the report if required
Provide a board{s}
Take details and do photography.
Personally create a schedule, adding floor plan, map, whatever is agreed with the client to suit their needs
Put my mobile on detais and web for out of hours contact
Provide a High St shop window
Put property on market adding to numerous websites, national and local
Newspaper advertising
Promote the property to registered buyers - phone, text email
Arrange viewings to suit vendor and seller.
Escort all viewings - daytime evenings and weekends
Provide feedback on viewings, website stats etc
Call at least once a week, sometimes daily ! and not just 9 - 5
Liaise between clients - eg where there is a divorce or separation
Advise if work is required who to contact
Qualify buyers
Negotiate offers, set closing dates, etc - this should not be devalued as negotiating is a real skill
Monitor offer process to ensure it goes to conclusion
I could go on to list the other personal things - dog walking, collecting dry cleaning but that's not obligatory !
No up front fees and no sale - no sales fee.

I am sure I have missed out loads of stuff.

As I have said before none of that will justify the fee to some people and that is fine, it is their choice. You could equally ask the question why British Airways instead of Ryanair.