Listed Building Status & splitting up a property

[cat5518]

Hi,

I'm wondering if someone can give me some advice. I own a farmhouse which is listed (Grade II) - it was listed because of some old beams inside the farmhouse.

There is a separate building in the garden - a small barn - which was converted into a 2 bed house (basically a granny flat) 10 years ago with full council approval. We have now decided to separate the 2 properties - and I know there will be formalities around this - but my specific question is about the "listed" status and whether this will apply to the Barn when we actually split them.

The question:
If we divide the property, so we have 2 separate properties - a farmhouse and a barn-house - would the barn still be a "Listed Building" by virtue of the fact that it was originally part of the Farmhouse? Or would the "listed building" status no longer apply to the barn when we split them (though I know it will apply to the farmhouse).

Not that it probably makes much difference, but the barn really isn't old and i'm sure that on its own, no one would dream of trying to ever get it listed - it looks like a small modern house!

If the Barn is still "listed" when we split them, any tips on how we go about getting it de-listed? Is it the Council who i have to approach or English Heritage - and what sort of arguments do i have to put forward?

Many thanks in advance and happy new year!

[JustinN]

Yes, the barn will remain listed, despite the split, and you would need to get English Heritage's agrerement to get it de-listed - the application to de-list is made to central government (not the local council), who will act on the basis of English Heritage's recommendation - so speak to EH first

[cat5518]

Thanks for the response. I'll follow up with EH - any idea if it's likely to be battle (where I'll have to put forward a big submission (i.e. pages and pages) with lots of evidence / justificaiton) or it is more like filling in a short form with basic information / justification? And finally, is it rare for EH to de-list, or is it not so unusual? Thanks again.

[JustinN]

I have no direct experience of de-listing, except that when I bought my current offices, I found they were listed, having been part of the adjoining High Street premises - the bakehouse for the bakery which is now a shop. Despite the fact that the former bakehouse has absolutely no architectural merit, I was advised that it would be simpler to get listed building consent for the alterations I proposed than to get the building de-listed. I therefore followed the path of least resistence

[cat5518]

Thanks a million - that insight is really useful. I'll do some more digging on de-listing, and also into whether it's easier to go for listed building consent. Thanks again.

[Richard Webster]

I don't really understand the point here. If the farmhouse is listed then it is the farmhouse that is listed.... If the barn wasn't listed (because OP said only the farmhouse was) then it doesn't become listed as such by virtue of changes in ownership.

If the barn is in the same legal title I can't see what that has got to do with the issue of listing. Separating titles or ownership won't make any difference.

What might be the case is that works to the barn could "affect the setting of a listed building" and therefore still require listed building consent, but that isn't quite the same thing.

[JustinN]

The listing covers not only the building itself but also any other object or structure fixed to the building or within its area and which has been so since 1948. Depending on the particular facts, this could well include the barn - cat5518 seems clear that the barn is covered by the listing of the house

[cat5518]

Yes, the barn is under the same title as the farmhouse, and was built around 1910, and therefore, it would be covered under the same listing - as JustinN says, the listing covers the building (farmhouse) and any other object in the curtilage.

Interestingly, i may be able the barn does not form part of the same curtilage as the farmhouse, as "curtilage" (when talking about listing) does not necessarily mean the whole of the land under that title deed, but it means (effectively) the land / buildings closely associated with the [main building] - there are a few cases where such a claim has been succesful, but it really depends on the facts.

Thanks again for the help.